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Displaying results 1 - 30 of 46 in total
Conference Session
Assessment and Accreditation in Engineering Management
Collection
2012 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Maxwell Reid, Auckland University of Technology
Tagged Divisions
Engineering Economy, Engineering Management, Industrial Engineering, Systems Engineering
AC 2012-3134: ENGINEERING MANAGEMENT WITHIN AN UNDER-GRADUATE BACHELOR’S OF ENGINEERING (HONOURS) PROGRAMMEDr. Maxwell Reid, Auckland University of Technology Maxwell Reid lectures in telecommunications engineering, computer network engineering, engineering management, ethics, and sustainability. He has researched and published on ethics and sustainability in engineering education, technology education, the role of a university as a critic and conscience of society, the need for an engineering code of ethics, and the principles of ethical and values-based decision-making in engineering. He has also published on effective teaching methodologies for engineering education in the post-modern period. Reid is the Deputy
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 1
Collection
2015 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Timothy L.J. Ferris, School of Engineering, University of South Australia; Alice F. Squires, Washington State University; Fanny Camelia, University of South Australia
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
practice. The discussion is presented using the affective domain ofeducational outcomes in Bloom’s taxonomy combined with methods to establish teaching andlearning tasks which will strengthen the student’s belief in the value of the methods about whichthey are learning.Role of Affective DomainThe affective domain concerns the issues of feelings and values. In relation to systemsengineering education the authors have, in discussion with various educators and practitioners,often encountered the view that the affective domain concerns how the individual addresses theinterpersonal issues of conducting their professional work or the area of professional ethics, inwhich there is a clear association with the value system adhered to by the individual
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Learning Outcomes and Assessment
Collection
2016 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Kamran Iqbal, University of Arkansas, Little Rock; Gary T. Anderson, University of Arkansas, Little Rock
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
types on each team. One purpose of the course is to foster smoothly running teams bydeveloping trust between team members. One day, we would like to use this or similar courses toassess the true abilities of our students to work in diverse teams.Assessment of Outcomes in Senior Capstone DesignAs determined by the departmental assessment committee, the SOs to be assessed through SYEN4385 and SYEN 4386 are as follows: (c) An ability to design a system, component, or process to meet desired needs within realistic constraints such as economic, environmental, social, political, ethical, health and safety, manufacturability, and sustainability. (d) An ability to function on multidisciplinary teams. (f) An understanding of professional and
Conference Session
SED Technical Session: Applications
Collection
2019 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
John M. Santiago Jr, Colorado Technical University; Jing Guo, Colorado Technical University
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
Skill Self and Peer Evaluation Thu, 06/14/18 100 1000 Participation Technical Contribution % of class meetings Factor Classroom Participation 5 80+ (18+/22) 100% Ethics + Conduct 10 75-80 (17/22) 94% Resume’ Submission 10 70-75 (16/22) 86% Progress Reports 5 65-70 (15/22) 81% Individual Contribution + 17 60-65 (14/22) 77% Contract 55-60 (13/22
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 3 – Course and Program Outcomes
Collection
2018 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Stu Turner, US Air Force Academy Systems Engineering; Kalyn Tung, United States Air Force Academy; Cory Cooper, United States Air Force Academy
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
design and conduct experiments, as engineering, science, and mathematics well as to analyze, and interpret data 2) an ability to apply engineering design to producec) an ability to design a system, component, or process solutions that meet specified needs with to meet desired needs within realistic constraints consideration of public health, safety, and welfare, such as economic, environmental, social, political, as well as global, cultural, social, environmental, ethical, health and safety, manufacturability, and and economic factors sustainability 3) an ability to communicate effectively with a ranged) an ability to function on
Conference Session
Instructional Design
Collection
2012 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Naveen Seth, New Community College at CUNY; Donald P. O'Keefe, Farmingdale State College
Tagged Divisions
Engineering Economy, Engineering Management, Industrial Engineering, Systems Engineering
measures. b. Ethical and professional responsibilitiesIssues such as ethics in engineering businesses are best addressed through context; otherwise thesubject essentially receives lip service. The conflict between quality product/process and costeffectiveness should be illustrated through examples of where this issue arose and was/was not Page 25.800.3addressed, e.g., costs of oil spills, externalities in production processes, social vs. out of pocketcosts. Ethics is becoming increasingly important in engineering and business courses and is afocus of ABET5 (2011) accreditation as reflected in the associate-level Criterion 3Ah andbachelor-level
Conference Session
Pedagogical Advancements in Engineering Management
Collection
2012 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Kathryn D. Abel, Stevens Institute of Technology; Anirban Ganguly, Stevens Institute of Technology
Tagged Divisions
Engineering Economy, Engineering Management, Industrial Engineering, Systems Engineering
flexibility / agility 6 Failure in Knowledge Management 7 Failure in quantitative analysis 8 Economic / budgetary failure 9 Technology related failure 10 Systems Engineering management failure 11 Failure in engineering ethics Page 25.1090.5 After the important causes of failures were identified, as well as, activities critical to the EMdiscipline, the next stage was to map them to each other. This is exhibited in Table 2
Conference Session
Developing Systems Engineering Curriculum, Part II
Collection
2011 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Agnes Galambosi, University of North Carolina, Charlotte; Ertunga C. Ozelkan, University of North Carolina, Charlotte
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
programs respond to questions about the inclusion and coverage of the topics of ethics,corporate social responsibility, and sustainability at their institutions. In terms of sustainabilitythey found that one third of these schools require all three topics as part of the MBA program,and there is a trend toward the inclusion of sustainability-related courses. Also, that several ofthese schools are teaching these topics using experiential learning and immersion techniques.The World Resources Institute and the Aspen Institute annually publishes a list of the top 100full-time MBA programs that integrate environmental and social content into the curriculum (seewebsite at http://beyondgreypinstripes.org/rankings/index.cfm). According to this website
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 3 – Course and Program Outcomes
Collection
2018 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Devanandham Henry, Regent University; Charles Daniel Turnitsa, Regent University; Cheryl Beauchamp, Regent University
Tagged Topics
Diversity
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
- cilitator Classes Taught: •Introduction to Computer Science •Ethics for Computer Science •Operating Systems •Computer Archi- tecture •Software Engineering •Database Fundamentals •Parallel and Distributed Programming •Mobile and Smart Computing •Introduction to Programming •Hardware & Software Research Interests: Computer Science Education, STEM Education, Online Learning, and Cyber Security c American Society for Engineering Education, 2018 Establishing an Engineering Core – What Does Every Engineer Need to Know, Particularly About Systems Engineering?1. IntroductionAn ABET accredited undergraduate or graduate program lays the foundation for the engineeringcareers of many in
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 1
Collection
2015 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Runing Zhang P.E., Metropolitan State University of Denver; Aaron Brown, Metropolitan State University of Denver; Jeno Balogh, Metropolitan State University of Denver
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
project on the environment, the economy,society and human well-being in both the short term and long term. To achieve the objective, theSSE program should provide students with a fundamental knowledge of civil, electrical,mechanical, environmental engineering and social science, such as economics and politicalscience. The leadership of engineers requires students to establish the competence ofresponsibility, integrity, ethics, proactivity and communication skills.Systems engineering is a shifted paradigm from traditional engineering approaches. This methodfocuses on engineering solutions from a broader perspective that includes optimizationparameters, long term lifecycle analysis and advanced methods to characterize and solvecomplex problems
Conference Session
Developing Systems Engineering Curriculum, Part II
Collection
2011 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Alice F. Squires, Stevens Institute of Technology; David H. Olwell, Naval Postgraduate School ; Timothy L.J. Ferris, University of South Australia; Nicole A.C. Hutchison; Arthur Pyster, Stevens Institute of Technology; Stephanie Enck, Naval Postgraduate School
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
‘- Engineering Ethics/Legal Areas Considerations (6%) Page 22.461.4 Project Thesis or Capstone Capstone Masters Project or Seminar (28%) Project (94%)GRCSE builds on the work summarized in Table 1, and earlier efforts for developing a referencecurriculum for systems engineering5,11-15 completed by current GRCSE authors as well as othermembers of the systems engineering academic community.Systems Engineering Knowledge Areas and TopicsThe SEBoK builds on earlier efforts for developing an integrated body of knowledge for
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Education Research
Collection
2013 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Donna C. Llewellyn, Boise State University; Marion Usselman, Georgia Institute of Technology; Douglas Edwards, Georgia Institute of Technology; Roxanne A Moore, Georgia Institute of Technology; Pratik Mital, Georgia Institute of Technology
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
Problem Collaboration Managing upLeadership ability, management & solving within the & down--to presence, implementation initiative & leadership school system ethics ability, ability, team administrators, evaluation confrontation to teachers, to approaches, approaches, students, and budgeting, willingness to to community planning take actionSchool System
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 2
Collection
2015 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Sanjay Jayaram, Saint Louis University; Michael A. Swartwout, Saint Louis University
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
as it applies to spacemissions. Students learned key topics related to spacecraft and mission design, includingrequirements development, trade studies, the project life cycle, system hierarchy, risk analysis, andcost analysis. The concepts presented in this course were demonstrated with examples from recentspace missions. The students were exposed to concepts regarding team organization, designfundamentals, and work ethics. These topics are in preparation for the capstone design courseexperience. They learn that systems engineering is iterative and develop judgment that will allowthem to compare and evaluate engineering alternatives. They learn to discuss systems engineeringmethods and processes as well as engage in systems thinking
Conference Session
Capstone Design Courses and Tools in support of Systems Engineering Education
Collection
2013 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Aditya Akundi, RIMES, University of Texas at El Paso; Eric D Smith, University of Texas, El Paso
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
Education Oral and Written Communications Ethics and Professional ConductMSSE Admission RequirementsThe entrance requirements for the MSSE Program include: • GPA > 3.0 • Letter of Purpose • Two recommendation letters • Official TranscriptsFor applicants with a Bachelor’s degree that is not in engineering, physics, or math:21 credit hours of junior/senior/graduate level engineering leveling courses are requiredbefore an application to the program will be considered, with 3.0 GPA or greater forthese leveling courses required. Because Systems Engineering is an inter-disciplinaryfield, the leveling courses may be from any department or mix of departments. Exampleleveling courses from the IMSE Department
Conference Session
SE Capstone Design Projects, Part II
Collection
2011 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Catherine Skokan, Colorado School of Mines
Tagged Divisions
Multidisciplinary Engineering, Systems Engineering
, the topics covered in the content assessment were discussed in both years. Pre and Post Content Assessment Questions and Value 1. (1 pt)What is the difference between a memo and a letter? 2. (4 pts)List four of the steps in Quality Function Deployment 3. (1 pt)According to the Code of Ethics for Professional Engineers, what is the first duty of an engineer? 4. (4 pts)List at least four of the steps in the engineering design process. 5. (3 pts)List at least 3 items that should be included in a monthly progress report. 6. (1 pt)A design review should occur during what phase of a project? 7. (1 pts)What is a Work Breakdown Structure? How is it used
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 2
Collection
2015 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Mohammad Sadraey, Daniel Webster College; Nicholas Bertozzi, Daniel Webster College
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
and objectives. The design goal is usually revised through thebenchmarking process which is to explicitly comparing the design to that of the competitor whichdoes the best job for satisfying the customer requirements. The nature of aircraft design project;complexity, multidisciplinary, and various constraints; suggests that the systems engineeringapproach to be the best candidate. However, the systems engineering implementation is morechallenging than understanding the system engineering process. Aircraft design projects essentially include a variety of realistic constraints, such as economicfactors, safety, reliability, aesthetics, ethics, and social impacts. The value-free descriptorsassociated with each objective; criteria; are quantified
Conference Session
Developing Systems Engineering Curriculum, Part II
Collection
2011 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Ricardo Pineda, University of Texas, El Paso; John E. Weaver, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company; Oscar H. Salcedo, University of Texas, El Paso; Jose Luis Falliner, The University of Texas, El Paso; Richard T. Schoephoerster, University of Texas, El Paso
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
best practices for newtechnology/product development and design within industries. However, by the timeengineering students graduate from Colleges and Universities they are disconnected from the realworld since academia has not prepared them for this multi-disciplinary approach.5, 11, 30 Inaddition, 21st Century engineers are not only faced with this multi-disciplinary lack of skills but Page 22.166.3also with the complexity of systems where traditional decomposition analysis and problemsolving for the design of systems are not sufficient for the multitude of technological, ethical,regulatory, and environmental issues that need to be taken into
Conference Session
SED Technical Session: Systems Thinking
Collection
2019 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Karim Heinz Muci-Kuchler, South Dakota School of Mines and Technology; Cassandra M. Degen, South Dakota School of Mines and Technology; Mark David Bedillion, Carnegie Mellon University; Marsha Lovett, Carnegie Mellon University
Tagged Topics
Diversity
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
Estimation in engineering Engineering ethics Force vectors Force resultants Moment of a force Equilibrium Tension, compression, and shear of materials Engineering materials Factors of safety Stress and strain Buoyancy Overview of fluids engineering Properties of fluids Fluid flow Drag and lift forceThe course culminates with a short final project in which students work in teams. Students areassigned teams using CATME
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 1
Collection
2017 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
John M Santiago Jr, Colorado Technical University; Kathy L. Kasley P.E., Colorado Technical University
Tagged Topics
Diversity
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
theirdiscipline knowledge.”8 Wasson also identified a need to integrate SE concepts, principles, andpractices into engineering programs. This will significantly upgrade the knowledge and skills ofnew engineering graduates to meet demands of the public and private workforce6.At the undergraduate level, the Western Kentucky University created a new SystemsEngineering (SE) Minor to upper division civil, electrical, and mechanical engineering9. Theintent is to prepare the student for their capstone design course. Their course consists of systemsengineering process, requirements, design fundamentals, subsystem fundamentals, trade studies,integration, technical reviews, and case studies and ethics. The minor in SE offers students toexpand their perspective on
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 2
Collection
2020 ASEE Virtual Annual Conference Content Access
Authors
Karim Heinz Muci-Kuchler, South Dakota School of Mines and Technology; Cassandra M. Birrenkott, South Dakota School of Mines and Technology; Mark David Bedillion, Carnegie Mellon University; Marsha Lovett, Carnegie Mellon University; Clifford Whitcomb, Naval Postgraduate School
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
the Mechanical Engineering Departmentfaculty. The book “An Introduction to Mechanical Engineering” by Wickert and Lewis [27] isused as the course textbook and the typical sequence of topics covered in the class is as follows: • The mechanical engineering profession • Engineering ethics • The mechanical design process • General technical problem-solving approach • Unit systems and conversions • Significant digits • Dimensional consistency • Estimation in engineering • Force vectors • Force resultants • Moment of a force • Static equilibrium • Elementary solid mechanics concepts (such as normal stress and normal strain in uniaxial loading, shear stress in simple connections, and Hooke’s
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 3
Collection
2015 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Lena B. Gumaelius, KTH Royal Institute of Technology; Per G. Norström, KTH Royal Institute of Technology
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
explicitly, exists for the other system types. Only oneof the students explicitly discusses collaboration between subjects at length, and that isMadeline, one of the teachers with a background in the social sciences. Madeline andGwladys, the two social-science teachers, are also those who have included the most elaborateexercises regarding ethics and politics. This is taught in the form of debates and discussions,where normative assertions are measured against each other. For the teachers withoutschooling in the social sciences, it may be difficult to see how social and political aspects canbe made relevant in the technology subject, even though this had repeatedly been discussedduring seminars and described in the course’s literature
Conference Session
Research Projects, Course Development, and Industry Issues
Collection
2012 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
John W Pritchard, Iowa State University; Mani Mina, Iowa State University
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
and research awards. He is an active member of ASEE and IEEE. He is also an active member of IEEE Education, Magnetic, and Ethics Societies. Page 25.688.1 c American Society for Engineering Education, 2012 Hands-on, discovery, critical thinking, and freshman engineering: A systems level approach to learning and discoveryAbstractOne of the most difficult tasks for teaching freshman engineering classes is to fill the gapbetween the high school experience and the paradigm of adjusting to the open, dynamic,exciting, and ever growing university environment. In a freshman engineering
Conference Session
Capstone Design Projects and Courses
Collection
2012 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Michele Miller, Michigan Technological University; John K. Gershenson, Michigan Technological University; Amilcar Alejandro Rincon-Charris, Inter American University of Puerto Rico, Bayamon; Carlos A. Alvarado, Polytechnic University of Puerto Rico; Jose A. Rojas, Universidad del Turabo
Tagged Divisions
Engineering Management, Industrial Engineering, Systems Engineering
ABEToutcome. Table 1: First reduction in number of attributes to assess based on faculty questionnaireABET Student Outcome Number of Number of attributes attributes rated with rating > 4(c): an ability to design a system, component, or process to 14 9meet desired needs(d): an ability to function on multi-disciplinary teams 12 6(f): an understanding of professional and ethical 4 3responsibility(g): an ability to communicate effectively 4 4(h): the broad education
Conference Session
Developing Systems Engineering Curriculum, Part I
Collection
2011 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Lisa Guerra, NASA Headquarters; Wallace T. Fowler, University of Texas, Austin; Martin James Brennan, University of Texas, Austin, Department of Aerospace Engineering and Engineering Mechanics
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
twice per week basis. Thecourse modules developed for the SSED course are Introduction, Teamwork, Project Life Cycle,Scope and Concept of Operations, System Architecture, System Hierarchy and Work BreakdownStructure, Analytical Hierarchy Process, Requirements–Basics, Requirements–Writing,Requirements-Configuration and CM, Functional Analysis, System Synthesis, Design,Interfaces, Margins, Technical Performance Measures, Cost, Risk, Technology, Trade Studies,Reliability, Verification, Technical Reviews, Schedule, Management, and Ethics. All modulesare available to the students on the course website and remain available to them in the capstonedesign course.Space Systems Laboratory (SSL) The SSL is a one semester-credit-hour laboratory course
Conference Session
Innovations in the IE Curriculum
Collection
2012 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Heidi A. Taboada, University of Texas, El Paso; Jose F. Espiritu, University of Texas, El Paso
Tagged Divisions
Engineering Economy, Engineering Management, Industrial Engineering, Systems Engineering
alternative.Main Topics Main Topics Main Topics Introduction to feedstock logistics Introduction and overview: fossil Introduction to Sustainability The emerging biobased economy fuels Engineering Industry Technological barriers Climate Change and climate Green Engineering concepts Biofuels and bioproducts modeling Ethical Consumerism conversion technologies and System Tools, Power Grid, Smart Life Cycle Assessment systems Grid Energy Management Estimation of
Conference Session
Innovations in the IE Curriculum
Collection
2012 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Denise H. Bauer, University of Idaho, Moscow; Jessica L. Heier Stamm, Kansas State University; Lesley Strawderman, Mississippi State University
Tagged Divisions
Engineering Economy, Engineering Management, Industrial Engineering, Systems Engineering
courses assigning a single team to each project.4Capstone design courses face the cumbersome but necessary task of incorporating a vast array ofcoursework into a single comprehensive project. Research advocates integrating courses fromnot only the technical curriculum but also general education curriculum as well.6 Withinengineering programs, this coupling of technical and professional topics is apparent. Accordingto the results of a 2005 survey,4 over half of programs surveyed included the following topics intheir capstone design courses: written communication (87%), oral communication (83%),engineering ethics (76%), project planning and scheduling (72%), decision-making (68%),teambuilding (66%), team dynamics (63%), engineering economics (61
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 2
Collection
2021 ASEE Virtual Annual Conference Content Access
Authors
Kelley E. Dugan, University of Michigan; Erika A. Mosyjowski, University of Michigan; Shanna R. Daly, University of Michigan; Lisa R. Lattuca, University of Michigan
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
is the“number of levels of detail,” [23, p. 42] under the assumption that modeling deeper levels of asystem enables the expression of more complex system behaviors. In addition, consideration ofdepth was implicit across all the attributes in Lavi et al.’s assessment in that each attribute wasscored on a scale from zero, or “no expression of attribute understanding”, to three, that was “fullexpression of attribute understanding” [23, p. 42].A couple assessments examined the breadth in terms of types of issues considered across all theidentified elements. In Rehmann et al.’s assessment the evaluation of rich pictures includedwhether there were elements from at least five of the following seven types of issues:“engineering, social, ethical
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 1
Collection
2014 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Fazleena Badurdeen, University of Kentucky; Dusan Sekulic, University of Kentucky; Bob Gregory, University of Kentucky College of Engineering; Adam Brown, University of Kentucky; Hai Fu, University of Kentucky
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
Parents of two or Other more*Good communication skills (1) 23% 73% 4%Systems integration (4) 13% 13% 71% 4%High ethical standards, integrity,and global, social, intellectual, and 12% 4% 4% 12% 68%technological responsibility (9)Critical thinking (10) 71% 4% 4% 21%Ability to prioritize efficiently (12) 17% 8% 8% 17% 50%Teamwork skills and ability
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 4
Collection
2014 ASEE Annual Conference & Exposition
Authors
Madeleine C Brannon, George Washington University ; Zoe Szajnfarber; Thomas Andrew Mazzuchi, George Washington University
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
, optimization, simulation, probability and statistics, facility layout, quality control, safety, human factors, and ethics." George Mason "Students will become familiar with common SE terms and University procedures as well as terms and procedures of other engineering disciplines. Students will also learn to use CORE, a systems engineering software program."Oakland University "In order to satisfactorily complete this course, a student is expected to demonstrate competency concerning their understanding of the following objectives: • Describe the role of an Industrial Engineer in a
Conference Session
Systems Engineering Division Technical Session 1
Collection
2021 ASEE Virtual Annual Conference Content Access
Authors
John Alexander Mendoza-Garcia, University of Florida; Andrea Goncher, University of Florida; Mengyu Li, University of Florida
Tagged Divisions
Systems Engineering
.114] were developed to measure systems thinking competencies in contexts beyond self-reported attitudesand behaviors. The problem scenario is a hypothetical vignette that asks students to consider multipledetails in an ill-structure problem context. The scenario provides information that possibly representsengineering and technical skills, economic feasibility, ethical considerations, and cultural sensitivity,which can be considered when studying potential solutions [21, p. 114]. "The Village of Abeesee has about 50,000 people. Its harsh winters and remote location make heating a living space very expensive. The rising price of fossil fuels has been reflected in the heating expenses of Abeesee residents. In fact, many